Posted by: Patrick Mosolf | Monday, 28 July, 2008

World Government and the Problem of National Competition

When I look at the world today, I realize that one of the underlying problems, which is causing other problems that we face, is the problem of competition between states for political and economic power- in other words, to get the upper hand.

Recently I have been writing about the New World Order Conspiracy Theory, which argues that a small group of elites are plotting to set up a world government, which would presumably be run by those elites, and in which the civil liberties of the world’s citizens are curtailed.

As I noted, the way this theory is presented, in its language, and with music and visual effects in the case of videos, is intended to make us somehow fear this condition of world government. Particularly for Americans, who perhaps feel that their form of government is somehow superior, the idea that the American nation could somehow be eclipsed by an international government, is perhaps fearful at first glance. It is perhaps also somehow related to a fear in Americans of losing their position as the world’s superpower.

But I would like to ask- is there something inherently problematic in the idea of global government? Or is it only when it is imposed on others in a condition in which their rights are curtailed that it becomes problematic? This is a question which I would like readers to reflect on.

Many of us are aware of different problems that exist in the world and which are threatening us, making life difficult for many humans, while we are destroying the environment and crowding out other species.

It has occurred to me that one of the fundamental causes underlying many of these problems is the issue of national competition.

For example, in the era of globalization, many have noted that among developing countries there is a “race to the bottom”. In order to attract Foreign Direct Investment (FDI), developing countries must compete with each other to attract foreign investment from multi-national corporations (MNCs). As a result they must decrease the level of taxation in their countries, they must reduce environmental regulation, and they must reduce the level of wages and benefits for their laborers. If they do not do this, they will not receive as much FDI.

Of course there are other intervening variables, but I assert that this is a fundamental dynamic which is occurring. The result of this is that the workers in developing countries receive smaller and smaller wages, and developing country governments have smaller budgets with which to provide key social services like healthcare and education.

Those countries which do respect worker’s rights and the environment come to be at a disadvantage relative to those who don’t. Let me provide an example. In the People’s Republic of China, which is a one party state in which democratic rights are restricted, there are no independent trade unions, and workers are only able to organize through a state controlled labor union. Several labor activists have been arrested and sentenced to prison terms for attempting to establish independent trade unions or go on strike. This has the effect of keeping wages in China lower than they would be if labor unions were allowed to freely operate.

In other Asian countries, however, the rights of workers’ are more respected, for example in Cambodia and the Phillipines. While wages in Cambodia are lower than in China (about 40 USD per month vs. 120 USD per month in China), the artificially low wages in China combined with other factors (such as better infrastructure and the availability of raw materials), gives China an advantage when attracting FDI.

It can be recognized that, in the struggle for national supremacy and dominance in the global arena, economic power is the key which leads to greater political and military power. The United States is an economy which largely relies on internal consumption (rather than exports) in order to maintain the size and strength of its economy. Yet at the same time, it is often argued that the US is a consumerist society, marked by vast overuse of resources and consumption which is not sustainable environmentally. The US, for example, consumes almost 25% of the world’s oil. It would be impossible for all of the world’s citizens to live at the level of the US citizen, without virtually turning the earth into a wasteland. The US society is a culture often described as consumerist, with advertising and consumption pervading almost every aspect of life.

Yet there would be virtually no interest among the US elite in reducing the consumption of its citizens, because by doing so, it would reduce the power of the US economy, which would in turn reduce the power of the US politically in the world relative to other countries. While reducing the consumption of US citizens would be the most rational thing to do from a global standpoint, it is not in the national interest of the US to do so, because it would result in a loss of power. Meanwhile, the environment suffers by the unsustainable consumption of US citizens. From a social justice standpoint, the vast inequality between citizens of the US and those of developing countries cannot be justified.

In post World War II Europe, many countries pursued welfare state policies which attempted to provide a basic social safety net for its citizens. The effect of these policies was to siphon funds away from corporate entities into government coffers, where they were redistributed to citizens in the form of benefits, medical care etc. I am not trying at this time to address the efficiency of these programs or whether they were ultimately effective. But the end result was that corporations in those countries had less capital to re-invest, which put them at a disadvantage relative to corporations from more purely capitalistic countries like the United States.

After the end of the Cold War, those European countries have dismantled or reduced many of their social welfare programs in order to reduce taxes on corporations and make them more competitive with other multi-national corporations. So, what was essentially a positive idea to provide basic security to these countries citizens, was scaled back so that these countries could better compete economically with other developed countries. There were other factors, such as changes in the political leadership of these countries, but I argue that the need to be more competitive was a driving force nevertheless.

In the Kyoto Protocol, which addressed the serious global problem of climate change, something which affects us all, the problem of national competition played a major role again. While our collective need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and limit climate change should have been the overarching goal, countries were pitted against each other trying to maintain their own self- interest by minimizing their responsibility to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. For example, perhaps one reason the US never ratified the Kyoto Protocol was that Kyoto exempted China and India from reducing their emissions, as “developing” countries. The US perceived that China was a rising power which would come to threaten their global dominance, and did not want to lose their advantage by reducing its energy use, while China was allowed to continue to expand energy use without constraint under Kyoto.

Let us also examine the issue of exploitation of natural resources and labor in developing countries by the dominant, developed countries which have greater capital and technology. Let us set aside the argument about whether there is exploitation and assume that there is indeed exploitation occurring. There is no incentive for any developed country, whether the US, European, Japan, or China, to “play the nice guy” and reduce exploitation through better labor and environmental arrangements. To do so would give an advantage to other developed countries which are their competitors in the global competition for economic power.

In Burma, for example, where firms have been pressured to withdraw for human rights reasons, there is actually no incentive to do so because it would mean losing advantage economically. If Western corporations do not partake in economic activity in Burma, it is almost certain that corporations from China, where there seems to be little domestic pressure to withdraw from regimes with human rights abuses, will enter the country and benefit from doing business there.

There has been a great deal of attention historically to the role of the CIA in engineering conditions in developing countries to ensure that they would remain open to investment by US corporations. Much of this occurred in the context of competition with the Soviet Union for global influence. While a great deal of attention has been given to the CIA, I don’t think that the CIA is the only intelligence agency which has undertaken this kind of activity. Further, I don’t think that this kind of activity will ever end as long as the global system is organized in such a way that countries are competing with each other for dominance. I expect, for example, that as China grows in power, we will begin to see greater and greater interference from China in the internal affairs of important resource providing nations to ensure that China continues to receive the resources that it needs and gain an advantage in the global competition.

And I don’t think that it is only major world powers that did this. Was Ghadafi only motivated by altruism in his involvement in the affairs of other African countries or was he seeking greater influence and power for himself and Libya? Was Charles Taylor not motivated by expansionist aims when he interfered in the affairs of neighboring African countries?

These are only a few of the major issues which are affected by the dominant ethic of national competition- no doubt there are others.

I think that the United Nations is a positive organization and has accomplished many good things during its existence. Yet at the same time we must acknowledge the failure of the U.N. to address and resolve many of the problems that we have in the world. One of the reasons for this is the fact that the U.N. is essentially a servant of the nation states within it- it is a playground for the nations of the world to attempt to assert their influence. It does not have the power to bind countries to any actions in most cases.

Our world is still dominated by calculations of national self- interest. The rhetoric of American politicians for example, is almost always couched in terms of the interest of the United States. This way of thinking will almost always be costly for other countries in the world. What is needed is a group of people, both normal people and elites, who are actually operating in the global interest. No doubt there are already such people around, but they have relatively little power and influence compared to those who act in national self interest.

If there were something approaching a global government, as compared to the current nation-state system, it would be possible to set up for example somewhat universal standards for labor and the environment. This would remove the incentive for developing countries to “race to the bottom” by outcompeting each other to remove labor and environmental protection. If they all had relatively equal standards in these areas, allocation of FDI would be made on the basis of other factors and workers and their welfare would be better protected.

The reduced need for developed countries to compete with each other to achieve dominance would enable them to reduce exploitative activities in developing countries. And in a world with a unified government, there would be virtually no need to compete militarily, allowing for the elimination of much of the wasted money spent on killing machines- guns, weapons, tanks, jetfighters, aircraft carriers, etc. This would free up huge sums of money and resources to address the humanitarian problems in the world, as well as reduce our impact on the planet and other species by conserving resources.

Since regions of the world would be operating in a more cooperative atmosphere and less to preserve their own self interest at the expense others, it would be easier to take positive steps on crucial problems that affect all of us- such as global warming and climate change.

Now, my friends in the New World Order Conspiracy camp, is this something so frightening? Should we fear this? Are you opposed to the concept of world government in principle, or only in the way that you think it will be implemented by these alleged globalist elites?

While I am not prepared at this point to expound on the exact details of the structure of such a government, I would like to point out that it should have two characteristics:

  • It should safeguard the rights of the individual citizens and groups within it, and
  • It should be implemented in such a way that the weaker, less developed regions (currently less developed countries) would not be overly dominated by those regions which are more powerful.

We are often accustomed to thinking in terms of nation states- often thinking of the interests of our nation versus that of another. We are accustomed to point fingers at other countries and blame them for all of our problems. And so we rarely really consider how we are doing as a species- as human beings as a whole.

If we look at the world today, and in fact set aside our own national identities, and instead consider our actions as humanity as a whole, we have to admit that we are failing as a species, in many ways. Yes, humanity has accomplished many great things, especially in the technological, material, and intellectual realms. But our failures should also be clearly manifest.

Imagine that a group of aliens came to earth and commented to us about what they thought about us. These are a few of the comments that I think they would make:

  • You humans- you have developed all kinds of technology that should be able to be used to provide basic needs to everyone of your species- but yet you have failed to do it. Millions of you still languish in poverty. Your children die in the millions from easily curable diseases.
  • You are wasting so much of your resources fighting each other. How much time and energy are you wasting to build killing machines that have never fed a single person? How many of your fellow human beings have been killed, and continue to be killed, because you cannot resolve your differences?
  • You are destroying your planet and altering it from its natural state, threatening yourselves and endangering even more of your species.
  • You humans- you continue to expand and take more and more resources, meanwhile all the other species (except for your domestic friends) are declining in number and the area they have to live in. In fact, you have permanently eliminated many other species which once inhabited your planet.
  • You still fight over silly ideas related to religion and ideology, rather than just accepting and tolerating each other.
  • You still have a long way to evolve.

I am sure that the alien visitors would have far more to say than that, which would no doubt be far more insightful than what I have written. But it is nevertheless useful to step outside of our national identities and look at ourselves as a species, to get the big picture.

So, in the end, I am proposing that the problem of competition between nations is a fundamental cause of many of the problems that we are facing today. As a consequence, I recommend that we as humans work towards a way to establish a fair and equitable global governance.

Note: I have never met or communicated with any aliens. I have never researched claims that aliens have contacted earth, but I am very skeptical of such claims. I am not making any assertions about the existence or non-existence of aliens. My reference to aliens in this post is purely for the sake of argument. ; )

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Responses

  1. Try reading John Stuart Mill or Wilhelm von Humboldt.

    Global governance will come with a cost. That cost is the universal law, religion, currency and system.

    It is clear that this will choke diversity, imagination and creativity which naturally grows as a result of a divergence of experiences and views.

    This will lead to entropy of civilisation, and the control measures put in place to keep the system running will increase.

    Consider the fact that enviromentalists scream out for biodiversity to bring balance and variety in nature, a requirement for the continuation of the biosphere. Now consider the fact that the forces working for global government are centralizing every aspect of our lives.

    Also consider the fact that the more centralised governance becomes, the bigger the machinery of control has to become. It is already failing in the UK as the government loses its grip on a single nation.

    The arguement that common people are the ones that spend all their wealth on military machinery is flawed to the extreme. A sociopathic elite jet set are the ones creating policy and funding these programmes.

    The population bomb as described by Paul R. Ehrlich is also a dangerous concept. Eugenics organisations running family planning fronts want to reduce world population by 80 percent. Those that want to reduce world population to save the planet should make a start by finding a bridge and leading by example. People like Ted Turner and the Rockefellers that espouse this ideaology dont seem to worry that they have multiple children from several marriages.

    If you want to imagine the world government they are trying to erect, try thinking of a system like communist China crossed with fascism and you will be getting close. After all, China has recieved numerous accolades from the UN on its Governance.

    You want to hear what David Rockefeller had to say about that regieme?

    Whatever the price of the Chinese Revolution, it has obviously succeeded not only in producing more efficient and dedicated administration, but also in fostering high morale and community of purpose. The social experiment in China under Chairman Mao’s leadership is one of the most important and successful in human history.”

    - David Rockefeller (about Mao Zedong in the New York Times, August 10, 1973)

    Mao killed over 40 million of his countrymen

  2. Hey this is great! I really appreciate your feedback. I just replied to your comment on the other post “Dissecting the New World Order Conspiracy”. I will need a little time to digest your points and reply to those you made on this one…

  3. Anti-Reptilian,

    I just want to say that although I don’t agree with your views, I really appreciate you taking the time to share your views, and I enjoy discussing it with you.

    Do you recommend anything in particular from those two authors as reading?

    Re: “cost is the universal law, religion, currency and system.”

    There is already a fair amount of international law. But I think in such a system there would be room for some “country law” in the same way that states in the US currently have their own laws. I’m not very familiar with the specifics of the US system of state vs. federal power, but this system can be studied, along with similar systems in other countries in a comparative way, to determine how to handle this issue.

    The main issue of diversity in governance systems as I see it, as relates to my proposal, concerns three existing proposed formats. 1) Dictatorial regimes 2) Islamist conceptions of government (which are not democratic), and 3) “democratic centralism” as espoused by Stalinists. I don’t favor any of these systems as they are basically rule by the elite, undemocratic, and limit basic political freedoms which I think are indispensable and necessary. While initially there would be a conflict over this, I think eventually the conflict would be reduced, as I think the citizens in countries ruled by those systems would eventually agitate for a change, since they would recognize that there is greater justice in a democratic system (which they would surely observe everyone else is enjoying). The lone exception might be Islamist systems, which may be more popular because they appeal to people’s belief in the Koran.

    I strongly disagree with you that my proposal would require “one religion”. How can you say that? It just seems ridiculous.

    I hope soon to write how I propose to replace the US dollar as “world money” with an international currency. This currency would only be used to facilitate international trade as the US dollar currently is. Other than that, each country could continue to use their own currency. Since the US dollar is already world money I don’t see how this would be insidious, and, as I will argue, would be better than having the dollar replaced by the Euro or the Yuan, as world money.

    I don’t know what you mean by “system”, so I can’t reply to that.

    I don’t see how a world government would choke creativity and imagination as these are essentially individual functions, or exercised as a community of, for example, scholars, which would still basically function as before. In fact it may increase creativity and imagination by freeing people from the wasteful and counterproductive international dialogue which we currently have. This dialogue, both among the world’s citizens, as well as political elites, is mostly just a bunch of finger pointing and blaming, which leads to entrenched positions and actually prevents us from learning from one another. Different cultures would continue to exist as they do now, preserving that source of diversity. There is already a trend towards a global loss of culture in favor of a consumerist, commercial culture, and I don’t see how a global government would accelerate that. It could even be used to preserve culture.

    I’m not sure that I think that the analogy of biodiversity can be applied to that of government. To me biodiversity would correspond to culture and ideas, languages, and theories or realms of intellectual inquiry. Government and state are essentially human creations which are necessitated by humanity’s development as a remarkably unique species, which has transcended some of the laws of nature. I’m not entirely convinced that “centralizing” government is harmful, though I would have to think more about that. In some cases centralizing can be good, as for example when the central government of the US forced southern states to remove racist laws and enact de-segregation.

    It may be true that having a central world government would be much bigger than, say, the UN is now, but it could also lead to a corresponding decline in the need for large national governments. For example, if wars could be prevented, national competition reduced, and as a result military expenses vastly reduced, that would probably far outweigh the expanded resources invested in a global government. The amount of money currently spent on the military is unbelievable. Further, there is already a lot being spent at the national level, on say, labor law enforcement and regulation. So resources are already allocated to the functions that a global government would perform.

    I was not saying that common people are the ones spending money on the military. Re-read my post. Did I say that anywhere in there? My point is that if the need for the military was reduced by lessening or eliminating national competition, then all of the vast resources which are currently being wasted on this (and it is a huge waste!) could be used for something more important, like taking care of humanitarian problems or even reducing the amount of time that people need to spend working!

    Re: “Eugenics organisations running family planning fronts want to reduce world population by 80 percent.” I am very skeptical of this claim. I would like to see the source of that allegation. Even if that were the goal, I strongly doubt that could be accomplished in the next 150 years, as I believe the human population is projected to continue growing until at least 2050. Personally, I think that the current world population is too large and is just unsustainable, and having a harmful effect on the planetary environment. But I cannot see anyway to really reduce it without violating people’s rights, so we’ll pretty much just have to accept it the way it is.

    I think you are confusing my proposal with the one that you say the New World Order elite are proposing. 1) If they are proposing world government, I have no idea what system they are proposing, and 2) What I am proposing is probably totally different. Basically what I am proposing is a system which universalizes democratic rights and people’s participation, with increased transparency and access to information, greater citizen knowledge and understanding. It is essentially a people driven proposal which would give more power to people, not less. As I said, I am a “true democrat”.

    Regarding China, I am really against the governance system of China and it is virtually the opposite of the kind of government which I promote, which includes greater, direct democracy, freedom of information, greater transparency, universal freedom of speech and the removal of restrictions on the media. I am totally against restricting the internet. I am also exploring the idea of some kind of citizen-run media, which would address some of the problems that you pointed out in your evidence of the falsehoods created by the corporate media. Indy Media Center is perhaps something like what I would propose, although it is dominated by the Left, so any proposed citizen media would have to encompass perspectives from across the spectrum of political/societal beliefs.

    At the same time, I have to be fair, and acknowledge that despite all these abuses, the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, etc., the Chinese government has had some major successes, especially in the realm of development and raising standards of living. But if I had to choose among the newly rising economic powers, I would probably choose India as the most favorable (although clearly not perfect). In addition, though there were many negatives of the Chinese Communist “venture”, it was a major “experiment”, as Rockefeller terms it, and there may be something we can learn from it. We should not necessarily think there is nothing to be learned from the legacy of communism, although I ultimately reject that model.

    Note: at the time Rockefeller made that statement, many people were quite positive about China’s “experiments”. It might be interesting to hear what he says about it now.

    To conclude, I think you have confused my proposal with the alleged New World Order proposal (which I don’t even know what it is, if it exists.) We are also coming from very different starting points, although I think some of your concerns merit consideration (for example what you said about over- centralization).

    I’m sure I haven’t convinced you, but at least you have forced me to be more clear about what I had in mind, which ultimately contributes to the debate. Thanks again, and please reply again if you’d like to discuss further.

  4. PM

    Whoa.. A huge comment.

    OK lets go through the discussion.

    Firstly, i agree, perhaps we are at cross purposes here. You are describing a world government system that would perhaps be of benefit. I am describing the world government system that is being constructed and will be presented as being of benefit.

    1. Books worth looking at from John Stuart Mills “On liberty” and from W Von Humboldt “The limits of state action”

    2. Universal law. The main trouble with attempts at international law under the UN, is that it has had no effect on the main causes of failure. Law is useless unless everyone participates. Despots choose not to participate, and unless there is pressure from interested parties (like say The US in the Iraq situation), no action will be taken with the exception of sanctions. Sanctions only hurt the “little people” because the despot is dug in and wealthy (eg Iraq sanctions resulting in the deaths of over 500, 00 children through starvation and disease). International law holds no sway despite constant attempts to increase it’s profile. It is clear that the end result will have to be the heavy hand of authoritarianism and war to get all to comply. This in itself is tyranny.

    3. Diversity. If you want to retain the bird of prey, you must retain the rat on which it feeds. This is the essence of diversity that cannot be grouped under one political system with the exception of freedom. Freedom requires individual observance. A political system requires group obedience. Your example of the Southern states outlines the problem of centralisation. It was only due to force and war that the Goal of a unified law came into being. One, i may add, that almost went the other way.

    4 World religion . In terms of defining a world standard, which would be a requirement for world government, It fits that a singular religion must be formed. Adversity between different ethnic and religious groups would be a constant erosion to the effectivness of such and organisation and would undermine it’s authority. This factor would also require “double standards” in law making that will also highlight failings of an international law.

    5.National competition. These days, natural resources are controlled by supranational or trans national corporations and interests. These organisations have no allegiance to country or state and use a nation much like a parasite uses a host. For instance, Nike uses third world labour to produce trainers for markets of their “Home nation”. The price of production is not passed on to thier countrymen. Indeed, it makes for greater profit margins despite taxes. They do not consider that their country is in need of industry and play the patriotic role.

    6. Military Funding. Military funding is an extension of government policy. As we are governed despots (the world over) They make the allocation of funding determined by policies that they set in accordance to their programme. We are both agreed that military spending is out of control. It was noted somewhere that military budgets in one year alone (i think 2006) could see every UN programme fully funded for the next 300 years. National competition is the result of the leadership. Most people want to trade freely across border, travel freely across border, and meet new and interesting cultures. The only thing standing between us and freedom IS government. Normal people would like taxes to be spent on what they are intended, namely the upkeep of national infrastructure, not the advancement of political ideology and policy.

    7. Eugenics. This is a big subject which i try to cover in brief, but for more in depth information that may show you the reality of this try
    http://www.emmerich1.com/EUGENICS.htm

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/darwin/nameof/index.html

    http://www.eugenics-watch.com/eugbook/euod_ch1.html

  5. PM

    Error correction… that is 500, 000 children through starvation and disease.

  6. Hey Anti- Reptilian,

    Sorry for the delay in responding to you. I’ve been taking a kind of break for the last few days from by blog. I’ll reply to your last comment point by point:

    Re: 2. International Law- I’m not prepared to answer you effectively about this since I don’t know enough. However I will try to a limited extent. It seems that there are varying different types of international law in existence at this time. For example, the international human rights conventions are mostly normative, and the various committees of these conventions only advise the governments on how to comply with them. There are contained in some of them, however, clauses which allow complaints to be made about specific abuses, although, as I remember, they do not allow individual complaints. In these cases the rulings may be binding. The ICC is another international law instrument which is more binding by requiring state parties to cooperate in the arrest of suspects. Again, I’m not familiar with how much parties to the ICC Rome statute have complied with this provision, though. Sudan, notably, has not complied with it, but they are not parties to the ICC, so it’s not surprising. The ICJ has the power to make binding decision, but both parties must agree to grant the ICJ the authority to make that determination. So the ICJ cannot impose its decision unless both state parties agreed to its authority in the first place.

    I know the WTO is very controversial, but I would just like to point out that it does have a strong system to enforce compliance. I’m not going to address injustices or flaws in the WTO system, but just to point out that it does have a somewhat effective mechanism to make states comply with its rules.

    Despite these weaknesses, I think there is a gradual expansion in the power of international law, which will probably continue in the future.

    From a theoretical future perspective, you could look at it two ways. One would be that states would voluntarily agree to the provisions of international law and generally comply with it since they agreed to it in the first place. In the early phases, however, as you say, there would probably be some states which would refuse to comply for various reasons. And as you say, the only response would be to resort to “authoritarian” measures to force them to comply. This could be very problematic, of course, and the procedures for doing so would have to be very clear and not influenced by questionable motives (as were, for example the invasion of Iraq, which the UN did not agree to anyway.) I think there is a case to be made for intervention, however, in serious cases, such as for example a case like the Rwandan genocide. When the atrocities are so great, the humanitarian motive outweighs the defense of state sovereignty.

    As time goes on, however, and such assertive states are worn away or change through democratic processes, the enforcement of international law vs. state law could be handled entirely legally without resort to force, as through a court system which regulates the interpretation of states rights vs. international law.

    Re: 3. Diversity I don’t follow your argument exactly here, especially the part “Freedom…group obedience”. But in terms of diversity, I would have to think about it more. However, my immediate reaction is that among states that are already democratic, we see a great deal of diversity in systems. I can’t immediately see any reason why they would have to change their system in order to become part of a global government. If, for example, there were an international parliament or assembly, the only thing which would have to be standardized among states would be the system to elect the reps to that assembly, while the national systems could stay the same. Similarly, an international court would have to be agreed by all states, but that wouldn’t necessarily mean that states would have to modify their own court system. For example, the ICC, and many other regional human rights courts only handle cases that have failed to be dealt with locally and nationally. But those courts do not require that the participating states change their court system.

    As I noted in my last comment, the main problem is not with diversity among states that are already democratic, but with those states which use a system which is either 1) dictatorial, 2) Communist, or 3) based on Islamic sharia law. I’m not sure if you would defend these systems in the name of diversity or not, but for me, at least on a political level, they do not provide justice to their citizens and so I am not particularly sympathetic to maintaining them in the name of “diversity”. (they may provide justice in other ways- for example many might argue that Communism provides economic justice, but clearly usually does not provide political justice).

    Recently I read an article on the UN in which the author suggested that national reps to the UN General Assembly should be elected by the populace, rather than being appointed. This seems to me like a good reform which would be a small step towards what I am talking about when I say “World Government”. (Note: I am not entering into a debate at this point about the merits of representative democracy, and in fact I have several criticisms of it.)

    Re: 4 World religion
    I don’t understand what you mean by this quote: “This factor would also require “double standards” in law making that will also highlight failings of an international law.” Can you please explain.

    I am not following you in this argument and I see no reason why a world government would necessitate one world religion. If religions were tolerant of each other, which has become the norm in most cases already, there is no reason for it to even cause much conflict in the world. The conditions which would, I think, allow for a smooth coexistence of religions and world government would be:

    1. A general separation of religious and political power (although religious values may affect local laws.)

    2. A perspective on religion which is more interpretive, rather than literalist. This would allow believers to be a little more flexible in their beliefs, so that they could be more tolerant of other religions. Beliefs which say that one religious book is the literal word of God, and that book obviously is in conflict with another religious book, is bound to cause some problems.
    A good example is a literal interpretation of the Koran, which not only contains some very strict beliefs which are at odds with many modern human rights norms, but also contains a complete political and legal system. A literal interpretation of the Koran would imply a political system which is at odds with modern democratic systems, and the enlightenment concept of reason as guide for lawmaking,(rather than divine origin of law).

    3. A general agreement among religions not to seek to force or pressure others to change their religion. A few Muslims, for example, still hold the desire to force other populations to change their religion to become Muslims, and maintain some subtle rules, such as forced conversion in the event of marriage to accomplish this objective. A few Christian groups also aim to convert others from their religion.

    As long as these three conditions exist I can see no reason why religion would have to be eliminated, or unified into one religion; and further I think that it would not be disruptive to world harmony at all. There is no way that establishing a single religion would work either, as I have traveled to many countries, and many people will NEVER surrender their religion- it is something which they hold very dear. Even the omnipotent Soviet states allowed the practice of religion in state sponsored churches of various denominations.

    Re 5 National Competition. I agree with your analysis of corporations, and it doesn’t negate what I was saying. What I was saying was that world government would establish a way to set basic minimum standards on labor, environment, and taxation. The value of this is that it would prevent corporations from shifting from one developing country to another in order to pay cheaper wages, avoid environment regulations, and to minimize the tax burden. One of the harmful aspects of globalization is that developing countries have been competing against each other to lower taxes, remove labor protection, and remove (or never create) environmental regulation, in order to attract investment. Obviously this has a negative effect on people and the environment.

    By setting basic standards in these areas it would protect the people and the environment so that corporations would have no choice but to operate in a country which respected these basic standards. Of course there would still be the problem of differential ability to enforce the standards. Further, I would note that the wages established could not be uniform, as it would have to reflect local cost of living (which varies considerably), as well as different countries’ advantages in other areas such as infrastructure and the education of their labor force. Some kind of mechanism to determine what a fair wage would be for each country would have to be established.

    Re: 6 Military funding.
    We both agree that it is a waste of money. My point is that if an effective world government could reduce warfare, or even eliminate it, the need for military expenditures would decrease dramatically. My perception may be different than yours, in that I think in a reasonably democratic country the populace has a least some influence over their government. If it becomes apparent to the population that vast military expenditures are no longer needed, they will demand that it be reduced.

    Your analysis of the situation of “the world’s despots” seems to apply more to the current situation, rather than to the one I am proposing.

    Sometimes I feel that you sound like an anarchist. I’m not in a position to assess the anarchist program, but I can’t see how, in the current society, it would ever work. To me, government is necessary, its just a matter of how to make the government just and reflecting the informed wishes of the nation’s people.

    Re: 7 Eugenics
    This whole debate is very complicated and involves many modern technologies which have sparked major debates about ethics. I can’t address all of these issues now. But a few points:
    Your original assertion was that there is a plan to reduce the world’s population by 80%. I am skeptical that there is such a plan, and further I doubt that it could be accomplished even if there was one.

    Re Population Council and Planned Parenthood. I’m not familiar with the Population Council, but am somewhat familiar with Planned Parenthood.

    Let me first say that I do think the world’s population is a serious problem. I am not anthropocentric, and I think that other species, and non-human ecosystems are important, and they deserve a place on this planet as much as humans do. Humans have already destroyed, and the trend is continuing destruction, of massive tracts of natural habitat. Further, numerous species are on the verge of extinction. This is absolutely shameless- as humans we really should be ashamed of what we are doing. We think we are so great but actually we need to take a good long look in the mirror.

    Not only do we have a growing population, but living standards are generally increasing, especially in many developing countries, such that the toll on the non- human habitat will increase. For example, our recent attempt to decrease reliance on oil products has led to the introduction of biofuels, which I suspect will lead to greater destruction of the rainforest, which has already been decimated.

    Re: Planned Parenthood- Promoting birth control such as “the pill” is NOT eugenics. It can be seen clearly that “white” populations in most countries of the world have low birth rates, or even declining numbers. Japan and Singapore have similar problems. This is probably not a result of some genetic dynamic but rather a variety of social and economic factors.

    To attempt to limit population growth in other countries where there is an unsustainable growth rate is not eugenics, but more an effort to bring population growth to a reasonable level. Let’s take Bangladesh for example. Bangladesh has 140 million people and one of the largest population densities in the world. Reducing the birth rate in a country like Bangladesh in no way threatens to make Bangladeshis extinct, but rather to bring its population to a more sustainable level which would allow the development of a higher standard of living.

    Without getting into the morality of abortion, the existence of legal abortion in a country does NOT constitute eugenics. Abortion only approaches eugenics when it is forced on a population by some kind of authority, such as the state. When a woman freely chooses to have an abortion, the existence of legal abortion does not constitute eugenics. If you think it does, I would like to hear your explanation of that.

    Personally, I am deeply offended by the allegation on one of the websites you linked to that somehow environmentalists are eugenicists! I understand that some people are opposed to abortion on moral grounds, but shifting the debate to say that this is eugenics is propaganda and demagoguery. It is highly offensive.

    Again, I have no idea whether Rockefeller and other “New World Order promoters” are eugenicists or not. I also would not deny, without having researched it, that there are some groups or individuals in the world which are eugenicists. But to claim that all efforts to limit population growth, and the promotion of birth control, is a form of eugenics is going way too far. This is either a deliberate mis-representation or is coming from someone who is unable to think clearly and distinguish between things which are distinctly different.

  7. PS- sorry my reply is so long. I see no other way to deal with your thoughts adequately except with a thorough discussion.

    Please feel welcome to reply further if you feel so inclined! And thanks again for taking the time to contribute to what is an important discussion touching on so many various topics!


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